Part two of my post: If you take into consideration that some of us have genuinely used Christmas as a way to remember Jesus birth (given it may or may not be on the exact date of Jesus's birth) it can be a good thing.It is also a good thing because family gets together! Look up Matthew 18:20
I just want to point out that, when somebody actually celebrates Christmas and Easter and truly try to make it a time for family and remembering Jesus, then it, in my opinion, is a good thing. On the other hand, halloween is downright evil! Halloween is a devious trick of the enemy, a stumbling block for many people.
I love Christmas🎄🎁🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎁🎁🎁🎁🎁🎁🎁🎁
Very good, jesus_wept, the_a-team2, and sts1111. I couldn't have said it better myself! (Sorry, trite and overused saying)
@sts1111 & @jesus_wept -- same
@jesus_wept -- I couldn't have said it better myself!
I see and respect your point of view, and I also know that holidays like this have pagan roots. Take Halloween for instance, It originally started in Europe as the day when evil spirits came out to haunt their relatives. Even though Easter has in the modern age gone completely wild, according to my knowledge, in the time frame between being a crazy pagan holiday and the modern Easter bunny, which as you might expect, I don't believe in, it was an innocent way to remember Jesus' trip through Jerusalem and the events that took place that day. We must be careful of others opinions though. I do know you guys are making some pretty solid scripture based arguments. I will likely do some more research on this topic.😃
Are you against celebrating birthdays, Babe_In_Christ?
What does the Word of God say about birthdays? http://remnantofgod.org/birthdays.htm
The Bible says in:
Jeremiah 10:2"Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them."
If you take the time to study this out, there are pagans who will clearly state that they are mad at Christians because they are taking over their "holy" day.
And still you have Christians trying to say:"Let's put Christ back in Christmas."
Jesus was NEVER in Christmas, and he never will be. Even though Christians like to say it is of Christ, it is not.
the roman catholic church is not the final authority, but the Bible is. They have many false doctrines. they used to kill Christians and burn them at the stake for not being apart of "The Mother Church". they are far from being the final authority. Christmas is a Joke. it has nothing to do with Christ at all. Look at this verse:
And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
sounds a lot like Christmas doesn't it?
and notice the verse says:
"and make merry"
what do people say?
the Bible says also in:
Ecclesiastes 7:1A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one's birth.
notice people go more crazy over Christmas then they do Easter. (Not trying to say Easter is good either.)
you will never find Christmas as a good thing in the Bible. Why?Because it's not good.
it is the way of the heathen. and not of God. some dumb Christians decided to make dec.25th Jesus's birthday, when it is not. (it is baals birthday.) when Dinah went out to see the daughters of the land what happened? ALOT of trouble. all because she wanted to see what the daughters of the land were doing.
and one last thing, we are not at all trying to say that the birth of Christ is a bad thing but how people now day's celebrate it and do it on a pagan day is wrong.
Look up "Mithras" then you will understand why christmas should not be celebrated.
Good words, Brother Joshua. I wholly agree.
And kiwimatt, I almost appreciate the fact that you've still decided to post, even after declaring in your SECOND TO LAST post that you would "not be posting again." LolAnyway, when you said that that has the meaning of "Mission," what sort of "mission" would a catholic have? Drinking, and getting drunk? Sinning all they want to, then pretending to be the most holy being on planet earth when the time calls them to be (such as when their sin is being called out, or when involved in every other Catholic activity [that doesn't even come remotely close to being biblically accurate])? Because all I've ever seen them teach (pointing to the verse you used immediately after mentioning the whole "Mission" thing) is that it's okay to be like what I have just pointed out."Or from the Anglican communion 'Go in peace to serve the Lord'"....Seriously? This statement is laughable at best. For one, when this is said, the congregation replies with, "Thanks be to God." Which, of course, seems rather humorous to me, because to me they're basically saying "Thanks be to God that I can sin all I want to now." Since it's rather late, I can get into more detail later if it's really necessary. I just don't understand how blind people can be to the fact that Catholics don't strive to actually live holy and absolutely pure. Catholics do NOT have power over sin because they are not born AGAIN. Period.
Finally, this message is to Lasher. Never have I mentioned that I wanted you to leave. Stay and argue all you want to. I'm sorry if you misunderstood me. But seriously, this is a LOVING warning, Christmas celebration is most certainly something to reconsider. And I'm also sorry that you will still continue to practically worship this holiday, even after the light has been shown to you.
Ok, since you want so bad for me to go away I will, but that does NOT mean I will change my ways! I still believe what I always have. And you can believe what you want, I'm not stopping you, but you won't change my mind! But I still will never understand how you see Christmas as a bad thing.
I agree that everything must be supported by Scripture. The best argument against celebrating Christmas is the Regulative Principle which governs all our worship. Unlike sacraments like baptism and the Lord's Supper which we are commanded to observe, we have no such directive to celebrate Christmas. The argument over the meaning of the word Mass is interesting. As the previous poster says, the term "Mass" is derived from the Late Latin word missa (dismissal), used to conclude the Mass with the phrase: "Ite, missa est" ("Go; it is the dismissal"). It has the meaning of 'Mission' Go ye therefore into all the world, teaching all men...' Or from the Anglican communion 'Go in peace to serve the Lord'. I'm not convinced that you can, therefore, interpret the term dismissal out of context in its literal, modern day sense.
One thing that you will need to notice is the fact that whenever you say "Merry Christmas." you should think of what you are saying. Merry means "Happy" and Mass means "dismissal." And if you put it all together you are saying "Happy dismissal of Christ." Take heed and think before you speak. as Christians we are to study out everything. The Bible says that "a righteous man judgeth all things." and all things, means all things. And before you comment, Make sure that whatever you are going to say you are able to back it up 100% with the Bible. And if it is not, you might as well not comment. Because we have the Bible to Back up what we say. And the word of God is powerful. And one thing I want to make clear is that we are not saying that if you celebrate Christmas then you are going to Hell. But we are saying that you will be more in the will of God if you do not celebrate it. I urge everyone to study out what they believe and have Bible to back it up at all times.
Just to clarify, if you want to argue, just keep in mind that we know exactly what goes on behind this holiday, and even if you DID have a good argument, we WILL NOT be convinced, because we still know what we're talking about. I didn't put this up there just to make people mad and get all offended about it. I will say this again: this is for Christmas HATERS, not Christmas LOVERS. I made this group for other people who are like-minded in this area, and the reason I have this public is because there might be other people I didn't know about that just might have wanted to join. I'm not saying I don't want you to argue, and that I want you to leave this group alone, because, hey, I'm up for a good argument, if you're actually sincere in your questions!
I'm just trying to make it clear that we WILL defend what we believe, even if you do have a "better" argument than us.
Well, the "is something wrong with you" part shouldn't have been taken so personally, but take it how you will. (I wasn't exactly aiming for the intelligence, to begin with, though.)
But, aside from that, I've noticed that what you consider being a Christian is just go to church and pray. Sadly, that's what every other carnal "christian" thinks themselves, therefore proving what the world has come to in this day. There is a MUCH bigger category of requirements of being a christian than that. (For example, Ecc. 12:13 would be one of the many things God shows us.)
And as to what kind of Christian we are, I can just point to what Joshua had said. We are non-denominational, as we only call ourselves Christians. Most people would think we are strange because we don't name ourselves (like how they didn't name themselves in the bible), meet in homes (like they did in the bible), and are remnant minded Christians that only follow the bible (if you don't believe it, then try to shoot holes in our doctrine - we're covered, shoot away). But the truth is, they just don't worship God with all their heart, soul, and mind, as required in Deut. 6:5, therefore making them not as zealous for God as much as they should be.
And as to how would we give gifts to Jesus? Well, the whole iPhone thing was just meant for a laugh, in the first place. But honestly, you don't know how to give a gift to God? Easy. You give yourself to Him. But seeing that most people are not willing to do so, and make it look like a dumb thing to do, you might as well think the same thing, as you already don't know how to give a gift to Him anyway.
As for your statements about the bible being inaccurate in it's translated form, ye do greatly err, not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God. God is ABLE to not only inspire the scriptures, but preserve them, even from one language to another. Consider the fact that when a NT writer quoted the OT, they were translating from Hebrew to Greek (in most cases). So, when they wrote the originals and quoted the OT, was it not PERFECT? Of course it was, and all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable.... Believest thou this?
We don't name ourselves after men. But after Christ. were none denominational.
That's what everyone says. I'm interested in what you call it.
We are bible believing Christians.
And for whether or not something is wrong with me.No, I have numerous intellectual achievements I could list if needed. However whether or not something is wrong with someone should not effect how you treat someone in the first place.
As any bilingual person will tell you, there can normally be numerous translations. So go any by any bible not in its original language will yield inaccuracies. Making the idea of discriminating against an english bible ridiculous (I'm going to assume you're natively english).Also, just as I'm interested in doing some more research into your beliefs what type of christian are you?Not gonna even try and defend catholics as I never liked the saint thing anyway.Faulting christmas purely because it is catholic, pretty sure that is an ad hominem fallacy against catholics.Church is the only bit of christmas that only christians do, atheists aren't just hermits who sit around all day wearing fedoras. They do pretty much everything theists do except go to church and pray. Most christians who go to church on christmas do church weekly as well. Except for those who are disabled who cannot attend weekly will often try and attend church on holidays like christmas.How would you give a gift to jesus though? I know many people who I communicate with primarily through the internet and not through physical means. I can't give them something physical, so I merely tell them happy birthday and try to be extra nice to them that day.
For one, I don't mean to be offensive, but is something wrong with you?? Not once have I EVER seen a catholic use the same book as a REAL Christian. Because, a REAL Christian reads out of the KING JAMES BIBLE. And not once have I ever seen or even HEARD of any Roman Catholic use that book, but only a corrupt version of the Bible. Catholics don't read their bibles anyway, they just lean on their priest to teach them. Catholics tried to keep bibles out of the people's hands for centuries because they knew if people read the scriptures for themselves that they would not believe the lies they were selling.
However, about the protestant thing, I'm assuming you're implying that we're protestants. Sorry, but we're neither Protestant or Catholic, as we believe BOTH are wrong in many areas. Catholicism is a CULT and most Protestants didn't fall far from the Catholic tree and still have many roots in that wicked system. They were called Christians first in Antioch, so true Christians predate Catholics by over 300 years and there has ALWAYS been a remnant of true, sold out Christians (Romans 11:4-5). So any christian thing from before the last centuries was certainly NOT done by Catholics, because Catholics are not even Christians. Mary and pope worship (Mat. 4:10 & Job 32:21-22), praying to dead saints (Phil. 4:6), taking the mass (which is an absolute abomination to God Ecc. 7:1 & Jn. 19:30), confessing sins to a priest (1 Jn. 1:9 & Mat. 23:9), purgatory (Luke 16:19-31)... ALL unscriptural, ungodly, wicked practices. Just add Christmas to that list. It is just as unbiblical as all those things.
You can nail down the birth date of Jesus to around September based off of the time when John the Baptist was conceived (right after the course of Abia - Luke 1:5) which corresponds to late June. Add 6 months to that (conception of Jesus - Luke 1:36) and you are looking at late December for Jesus conception. Now add 9 months to that and you end up in late September. So the date is definitely wrong but that is not the ONLY reason we reject the holiday. God told us not to learn the way of the heathen (Jer. 10:4). He never said not to learn the WHY of the heathen. It doesn't matter WHY you try to worship God by celebrating Christmas because it is worshiping God in the WAY of the heathen (xmas trees complete with little Baal sun orbs and a star on top, yule logs, mistletoe, wreaths, covetousness abounding, gluttony, unscriptural Christmas hymns which are some of the most doctrinally unsound hymns in the book, etc.)
Eze. 44:23 And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.
Isa. 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
You said that the atheist was doing "the Christian christmas just without the christian elements like church and whatnot". Funny that church is the only example you came up with because other than assembling with believers which should be a WEEKLY/daily thing (Hebrews 10:25), there is really nothing else that is done around this time that could be considered Christian.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Luk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
By the way, you don't even need to use the bible to debunk Christmass since it's NOT biblical to begin with. As far as your references to assembling with other believers (2 Corinthians 9:6 (verses onwards from there), 1 Thessalonians 5:11, Hebrews 10:25, and Psalm 150:1-6), how do those even apply to the Christ mass? Believers should be living those verses out every day of the year, not just on Baal's birthday (the winter solstice).
So, just what present are you giving Jesus on His "birthday" this year? Or will you be receiving gifts instead? What other birthday do you celebrate where the only one that doesn't get any gifts is the one whose birthday (it supposedly) is? Maybe he'd like a new iPhone?
Jer. 33:3 CALL unto me, and I will ANSWER thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.
I'll just skip over longliveKJBs post as it was lacking in several areas.
Born again christians and catholics both go off of the same book (albeit the catholic one having slightly more books in the old testament). Also catholics have been around over a millennia before born again protestants split off of it, so unsurprisingly pretty much any christian thing from before the last centuries was done by catholics. The "worshipping God in way he did not perscribe" bit I addressed in my last post, complete with scripture refs.Some of these things you claim it represents appear to be just innacurate. The ones on worldliness seems vaguely right and I can see where that one came from, and possibly idolatry and covetousness as well since it can be applied to most anything. However the bondage and rebellion ones don't seem to apply so elaborate on how they apply please.And for your final sentence. I always viewed evil as heing something that hurt someone else normally for personal gain.
(a nice big space to symbolize I'm addressing the next post)
I've heard atheists (just gonna address religions individually as the word pagan is too broad and means different things to different people) say that so I understand that completely. However from my experience they are simply doing the Christian christmas just without the christian elements like church and whatnot. Most wouldn't even know of christmases history :PI likely will look more into this. However on the searching the scriptures bit I'm the only person here who has referenced scripture directly instead of just saying how they interpret parts of the bible.This whole idea of dismissing a holiday because the date is wrong just seems ridiculous. When the exact date will likely be forever unknown.
*he* I mean the.
Oops! Here's the full thing, And Lasher we don't hate the birth and the death of Jesus Christ at all. Without them we would not even have eternal life but what we hate is how people try to say that Jesus's birthday was December 25th and it was not. People have studied about when Jesus was born and they learned that Jesus's birthday was not in winter. They studied this stuff for years. And God would not of had his son born on a pagan gods birthday anyway. So please just think about this and study it. Thanks for taking he time to read this and I look forward to hearing from you! Sincerely - Joshua
And Lasher, we don't hate the birth and death of Jesus Christ because we
Well, Banthaboss you should look more into December 25. We have pagans today who always say that they are mad at Christians because they are taking away their day, etc... December 25 is the birthday of the pagan god Baal. So you are actually celebrating Baal's birthday. I urge you to look more into this because the Bible tells us we are to search the scriptures and study things out.
Years separate should be *ye separate. Haha. But I would like to be YEARS SEPARATED from the things that God hates like the Christ mass.
Christ mass is Christian in name only like most "Christians" today. Christ mass is a Roman Catholic holy day that a true born again believer has no business celebrating. Saying you are worshipping God but doing it in a way that He never prescribed nor put His approval on is not truly worshipping God, but self. We are told to come out from among them and be years separate, and to not love the world or the things of the world. The season represents worldliness, covetousness, bondage, idolatry, and rebellion. Those all seem like good reasons to "abstain from all appearance of evil", no?
there is nothing Christian about the christ-mas
The average christian christmas that I know of involve giving of gifts, visiting friends and family, attending a christmas church service, and singing hymns.
Here is some scripture on those respectively. 2 Corinthians 9:6 (verses onwards from there), 1 Thessalonians 5:11, Hebrews 10:25, and Psalm 150:1-6.
And I did some more research on the history of christmas, it was originally a week long period of lawlessness in rome which ended on december 25th. Then Christians came along and basically changed everything. There are no bible verses which are about having periods of lawlessness (to my knowledge).
It's not a pig that gets dressed up, it is a broken down house that bit by bit is changed and repaired until it is an entirely new house with some resemblances of the old house.
It has been said that most people don't even know what they are worshipping at Christmas time. Amen. If they are celebrating the way the world does then they may not know it, but they are worshipping idols. Just because you clean a pig up and put a dress on it, doesn't change the fact that it's a pig. Christ mass is just dressed up paganism, plain and simple. You don't have liberty to worship God any old way you choose. God is looking for people to worship Him in spirit AND in truth. And the truth is, Christianized paganism is still pagainism.
Since the holiday was started by the pagan Catholics, it's no wonder they didn't change it much from its Baal worshipping roots as Catholicism is just repackaged Baal worship at its core. Sure it's more palatable than Satanism but that also makes it more dangerous as the subtlety ends up deceiving more people than blatant Satanism EVER could.
What I mean is that we don't hate Christ's birth, but Christmas means DEATH of Christ. Christ mass is really a Roman Catholic Pagan holiday based off of Baal worship.
We don't know when Jesus birthday is, do we? So we chose a day to celebrate it on instead! And from what I heard, we chose dec 25 because there was already a pagan holiday then. I we wanted to kind of block that out or something
I know that it is not technically Jesus birthday. But was it called Christmas before Christians started celebrating Christs birth? We don't celebrate what the pagans celebrated, do we. We celebrate Christos birth, not the birth of their sun God or something like that!
To make things clear, we wouldn't even hate Christ mass if it really was Jesus' birthday.
no one said celebrating the birth of Christ is pagan its just that pagans STARTED the holiday Christ-mas and so we are against it.