And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. [Ezek 36:26-27]
I love the book of Ezekiel (especially chapters 18, 33, 36, and 37). In these four chapters you see the true heart of God. "You are a terrible people, but I have chosen you. I will honor my promises to you even though you do not deserve it, to show how great my name is. Stop sinning, for I take no pleasure in you killing yourself through sin. But even if you do not, I will still restore my people so that the other nations will see how great I am, and come to me."
Goodbye, joosep. I'm sorry that I started something that got offensive toward you. We have closed the discussion because we have come toward our conclusion. God Bless.Jappel
So sorry to lose your fellowship here, joosep. I agree with janet23 and mrsmoo in expressing appreciation for your encouragement along the way - and for your example of being an encourager. :) God bless you as you draw near to Him.
O give thanks unto the LORD, for He is good: for His mercy endureth for ever. Let the redeemed of the LORD say so, whom He hath redeemed from the enemy. Psalm 107:1-2
I agree that you have the right to handle your spiritual affairs as you see fit. I didn't mean it that way. I'm sad that you've decided to leave.
This is not just a ministry to you here, joosep, but to us as well. We need your voice of experience here. I hope you'll reconsider.
Agree janet. joosep i have always appreciated your kind encouragement and support. May your journey with the Father continue with sweet JOY and PEACE. Prayers surround you.
will be sorry to see you go Joosep. You are such an encouragement. May the LORD continue to use you powerfully.
Onfire247 wrote: "That is an unnecessary overreaction, joosep". No. Not an unnecessary overreaction. It's my own personal decision regarding the proper way to manage my own spiritual life before the Lord.
If this were the type of group where it were possible to moderate comments by deleting those which are off-topic, then I would stay with it. But instead, the ON-TOPIC posts can *easily* be drowned out by long, long oceans of text.
Jappel, don't worry, I'm sure you are only doing what your own conscience says is the right thing to do. I don't hold anything against you, and I hope you feel the same towards me.
I'll be doing my memorizing on another good Christian website. Perhaps I'll return if Luke is willing to enable an option wherein the newsfeed is disabled, for those users who want it disabled. I'd also like to opt out of the entire awards system here.
Until then, I'll be elsewhere.
But when he (Jesus) saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd. Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few; Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.(Matt. 9:36-38)
I totally understand where you are getting at joosep! That's why I created the other group so that things like this wouldn't happen. I am sorry if I have done something to offend you.
John 17 (Jesus' prayer for His church, His bride)20 Neither pray I for these (His disciples) alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
"O blest communion, fellowship divine,We feebly struggle, they in glory shine.Yet all are one in Thee for all are Thine.Alleluia! Alleluia!(from For All the Saints)
That is an unnecessary overreaction, joosep. You created the group and have the right to make such requests. This group is a useful ministry to the users of this website. It would be a shame for you to step out of it now. We need your voice here, joosep!
I apologize, if I spoke too harshly in the comments below. I see now that it's not really possible to establish a purpose for a group and then to actually maintain it. I'm leaving this group now. If anyone wants to continue to maintain it, feel free.
I feel very strongly that our focus must be on what is God speaking to us, through His Word? Instead of arguing endlessly about the merits of one version or another. I'm not going to participate in it.
Additionally, any version which is available for memorization on this site, is a valid version which one may quote -- why? As users of this site, we are all memorizing various versions which Luke Plant has made available. By making them available, he's, I'd say, given his implicit endorsement, that they are worth quoting. Therefore, it is my intention that the KJV, the ESV, the NET, the CSB, the NASB, and the Turkish version (if there are Turks actually reading this) may all be quoted here.
I'd like to call everyone's attention to the description which I provided when I made this group.
I would like very much, if in the future people restrict their comments to those which are in harmony with the stated original purpose of this group.
Yes, onfire, I do understand what you are saying, and I fully agree with you. In my own case, maybe it sounds a bit lame, but I'm staying out of it because I simply don't have the time to invest in it ... my work is very demanding at the moment, and it's also important to me to keep up the memorization /repetition. I guess each person has to count the cost.
But I still find all the posts to be interesting and informative.
I wish you the best!
I, too, prefer to focus on those things as well. Indeed, I've spent two hours on this discussion that probably would have better been spent on further memorizing. But it is not an "either/or" proposition. Sometimes these discussions are necessary, as long as they produce light instead of heat. Once the heat comes on, I step out. Unity in Spirit is more important than winning any argument. After all, we are all on the same side.
Yes, I agree with what you said FinalAsgard. I'm gonna stay out of the "which translation is the right translation" discussion ... personally, I'd like to focus more on meditating on the Word, prayer, turning fully from my sins ... way, way, way down in this thread I quoted Jeremiah 4. And that was the point of why I quoted it. Not to create a discussion of various Bible translations, but to consider very seriously ....The Lord was warning the people of Judah to turn from their sins .... the warning is valid for us today. We must break up that very very hard ground which exists in the hearts of some of us (I'm putting myself as first on the list)
The NASB is an excellent translation, for the study of scripture, but not necessarily the easiest for memorization. :D
I went back and forth on ESV or CSB for a while, and really messed up my memorization here because I couldn't decide lol. In the end, while there are many passages that are easier to understand and memorize in CSB, the ESV is used in my church and is a little more on the word-for-word translation scale, so I went with that. And deleted my CSB verses from my history... which ruined my streak :D
Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord.” So when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put his outer garment on (for he was stripped for work), and threw himself into the sea. (John 21:7, NASB)
I was rambling a bit in that previous post. (As an aside, let me say I admire onfire247's writing; sometimes his posts are rather long, but his thinking is always focused and organized and he presents his thoughts in a cohesive fashion). I on the other hand, I think, tend to ramble ... well, we all have our unique gifts from the Lord, each one of us :)
Anyway, I shared John 21:7 here to reinforce the point made in the previous post.
In John 21:7, some of the disciples were in a boat, a ways off from the shore. In the early morning light they saw someone standing on the beach. He spoke to them, but they did not recognize Him. Yes, as we see in verse 7, the "disciple whom Jesus' loved", namely John, did recognize Him.
We could ask ourselves, why did he, John, recognize Him while the others did not? Perhaps he knew Him a little better; perhaps, his nature and personality were such that he was an observant, thoughtful kind of person, whereas Peter perhaps was more a man of action. But do you see how they worked together? John recognized, Peter took action. We need each other! We need our varying perspectives and unique personalities. As long as we are focused on our God and in submission to Him and to His word, then we have a freedom to live out the unique personalities and giftings given to each one of us.
Again, I've rambled. But I hope that some of these thoughts were helpful. So, let's watch our Lord very carefully, as John did!
To You I lift up my eyes,O You who are enthroned in the heavens!
Behold, as the eyes of servants look to the hand of their master,As the eyes of a maid to the hand of her mistress,So our eyes look to the LORD our God,Until He is gracious to us.--Psalm 123:1-2 (NASB)
That's from my listening queue for this morning. Note the image which the Psalmist uses: just as a slave girl watches carefully the body language of her mistress ... so that she can quickly discern the will and desire of her mistress ... even so, our eyes are to look to our God at all times ... "until He is gracious to us". I would add, also, we look to Him at all times, to know Him, to understand Him, (by meditating on His Word), so that we may quickly know His will for us in any given situation -- just like that servant girl watching her "owner" in old times.
The servant girl watched / watches out of fear of punishment, or perhaps out of love also for her mistress. We watch our God, knowing that He is ALWAYS good and righteous, knowing that His will is always good. We watch because of our love for Him and more importantly, His love for us -- and we also watch in fear, in this case "the fear of the Lord", which is always righteous and pure.
Thanks for you input, everyone. I used to use, almost exclusively, the NASB. ... but recently I've been listening to Bible audio, using an awesome app on my phone, and not restricting myself to only the NASB. I've been very much blessed by doing that.
I quoted from the NET recently because that is, indeed, a translation which Luke has provided as an option for memorization on this very website, and therefore it would seem, has his support.
Since you seem to have a great knowledge on this subject, why don't you join join the Bible Translations group. I set this group up so that people can say their piece, and not upset others when they do it in a group that isn't "meant for that. Not saying that this may upset people in this group, but to that we have a place to exclusively talk about this somewhat touchy subject.
I know one's translation of choice is a touchy subject for some Christians, and I certainly don't mean to offend. I grew up with the KJV. Indeed, many of the verses I'm learning get messed up because I still have the KJV versions of the verses rattling around in my head (like John 3:16's "only begotten son"!). The KJV was monumental to opening up the Word of God to the masses, and it will always have a special place in my heart. The world is such a different place because of the KJV translation!
Let's get a bit technical for a moment. What is the purpose of Bible translation? It is twofold. First, you must take the words from another language and put them into words understandable in the language of the day. The KJV did that masterfully in the 1600s. Revival started because of the KJV's existence! Since the KJV was translated, however, we've learned a lot about how the mechanics of Greek and Hebrew work that was unknown at that time. For example, did you know that the word "Jehovah" does not exist in Hebrew? It is actually a form of the word "Yahweh." Writers at the time would not say or write "Yahweh," but would instead say "YHWH" or "Adonai." But they would, however, put the vowel symbols from "Yahweh" on the word "Adonai" as a sign of reverence, which would then make it turn into "Jehovah." Hebrew speakers knew this and would translate it "Adonai" without thinking. KJV translators did not know this, however, and thus "Jehovah" was born! (I still say Jehovah sometimes, btw, God knows what you mean!)
The second part is making sure your translation comes from the original documents. Sadly, there are no original documents for any book in the Bible, only copies. (This is not a problem; few secular documents have survived the ravages of time). Since there are no originals, the main rule is "oldest copy of the Bible document wins." The main challenge with the KJV version of the Bible is that is was formulated from Greek and Hebrew documents that existed in the 1600s. The translators were meticulous in their translation at that time, which is why the translation has stood the test of time. But in the intervening 400+ years, we have found over 23,000 new manuscripts (Codices and fragments) that shed new light on the original language of the Word. Indeed, some of these are centuries older that the documents the KJV translators had access to!
The good news is that these documents have reinforced that the Bible translations we have today are 98% accurate to what the original authors meant. The bad news is that we have also found that modifications have been made over time to the originals. The vast majority of these changes are spelling errors or minor clarifications, but there are some blatant additions. The most famous example is the "woman caught in adultery" story found in John 8. When the KJV version was translated, they included this story because the oldest copies of their manuscripts available at that time had those verses. Since then, however, we have found even older manuscripts that do not have that story. Why is that? Good question! Translators guess at some point that story was added to John by one of his followers. Perhaps it is a story that actually happened that John did not recall but another who witnessed it did. After all, it does match the overall narrative of crazy grace found in the rest of the Bible. Regardless, it was not what John intended, but the KJV translators did not know that. Were the KJV translated today, maybe they would not have added it. (As a side note, that is why you see the ESV, NIV, etc., put that section in brackets or italics as an homage to the KJV).
So should believers not use the KJV? By no means! It is still the Word of God accurate enough to save your soul and to show you how to live a Godly life. If you prefer that translation, and the Holy Spirit speaks to you through it to you, go for it! But if you are looking for the most accurate translation, however, sadly the KJV is not it. Those interested in accuracy should instead look to the ESV, NASB, or NRSV. Those interested in a version you can understand better, however, should explore the NIV, Living, or Message translations.
We are so blessed to have so many great Bible translations available to us, and we don't even know it!
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.Philippians 4:8 KJV
I agree. I am for KJV, but I am not mad about it. There are people that I know that are "KJV and death to the rest" you could say, but that isn't the way to go about it.
We may or may not disagree there, but as long as you don't say "it is the only valid translation" then we can still have a good time of fellowship together. It's the KJV only individuals that, at least in my experience, tend to really cut out those who read other translations.
I prefer the KJV. I'm not going to get into an argument over translations, but I believe that is the best translation of the Holy Scriptures.
It is interesting how translations change over time. For example, the NET version of Jeremiah 4:3 on here says:
For thus says the LORD to the men of Judah and Jerusalem: "Break up your fallow ground, and sow not among thorns."
Biblegateway's version, on the other hand, says:
Yes, this is what the Lord has said to the people of Judah and Jerusalem: “Break up your unplowed ground, do not cast seeds among thorns.
Both are drastically different from your version, yet I see that version as well on Biblehub and Studylight. I wonder what version of NET has that translation? I can't seem to find out online.
Sorry, forgive the ramblings of a language nerd. I like the translation you used better than the two above because it has more dramatic imagery. That is my translation style as well.
Yes, the LORD has this to say to the people of Judah and Jerusalem: "Like a farmer breaking up hard unplowed ground, you must break your rebellious will and make a new beginning; just as a farmer must clear away thorns lest the seed is wasted, you must get rid of the sin that is ruining your lives.
Jeremiah 4:3 (NET) Here, Jeremiah is speaking to the people, with a word from the Lord, regarding the nature of repentance.
Proverbs 9:16-18 (NET)
16 "Whoever is simple, let him turn in here," she says to those who lack understanding.17 "Stolen waters are sweet, and food obtained in secret is pleasant!"18 But they do not realize that the dead are there, that her guests are in the depths of the grave.
Who is like the LORD our God,Who is enthroned on high,
Who humbles Himself to beholdThe things that are in heaven and in the earth?
He raises the poor from the dustAnd lifts the needy from the ash heap,
To make them sit with princes,With the princes of His people.
He makes the barren woman abide in the houseAs a joyful mother of children.Praise the LORD!
Psalm 113:5-9 (NASB)
That was in my listening queue for today :) So wonderful, that God regards with favor even the poorest and the neediest and the least beautiful ... He shows no partiality ... He's not into "superstars" or "glamor" like much of today's society is into it. No. He loves each and every one with the same kind of love.
amen! thank you.
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.... And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.Matt. 28:1,5-6
Joosep, your verses made me think of those who discovered the empty tomb early in the morning - and when they believed that Jesus had risen from the dead, how they must have rejoiced, thanking and praising the Lord.
Awake, harp and lyre;I will awaken the dawn!
I will give thanks to You, O LORD, among the peoples,And I will sing praises to You among the nations.
--Psalm 108:2-3 (NASB)
You're welcome. They just "happened" to be on my listening queue this morning :) I like in those verses how it says that even the bird, or even the swallow building a nest, has a safe place in the House of the Lord. To me it just shows that God's love is intended for EVERYONE. It's we humans who ignore it, or don't believe it, or can't receive it.
Truly, how blessed are they who dwell in our Lord's presence! Thanks for sharing these verses, joosep.
How lovely are Your dwelling places,O LORD of hosts!
My soul longed and even yearned for the courts of the LORD;My heart and my flesh sing for joy to the living God.
The bird also has found a house,And the swallow a nest for herself, where she may lay her young,Even Your altars, O LORD of hosts,My King and my God.
How blessed are those who dwell in Your house!They are ever praising You. Selah.
Psalm 84:1-4 (NASB)
Understand this, my dear brothers and sisters! Let every person be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to anger.
James 1:19 NET
"Quick to listen ....." I think we could apply that to our memorization / verse meditation that we do on this site. As Symota noted recently in another post, using this website has helped him / her take each Bible verse more slowly. "Quick to listen" could also mean "to read and to hear carefully"