Activity from TheMoviegoer§↻

Woohoo. That a huge milestone. And a huge achievement to accumulate those points so quickly. Well done and stay blessed 👏

Wow... Great Job! May the Lord richly bless you!

awesome awesome awesome!

Thanks, everyone! Anyone want to predict how many points it will take me to reach 100% on the entire book of Mark? I never would have believed 80 million wouldn't be enough. Right now, I have 489 out of 642 at 100%.

Ok I predict 100,000,000 😄

At present how many are there in the 90% range? :)
And also a belated congratulations!

100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000!

Nice, Cali2022! That certainly feels right. Secundus, all of the verses are within 95%. However, single verses (because of losing ground) from chapters 1, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, and 10 have taken more than 8 months to move from 70% to 99%.

What do I mean by losing ground? Well, back when chapter 1 was around 92%, I came to Mark 1:43 during my regular chapter test. And because I use the first letter entry method AND typed too fast, I totally wrecked 1:43. The percentage dropped from 90 something percent down to 70%. I created a single verse entry for 1:43, testing it without error daily for almost a year. I am only at 99% this month. Granted, back then, I didn't know that if you reloaded the page before you hit return, you could try the verse again and get it correct. I have spent an inordinate amount of time on that one verse, to get to 100% but it is SLOW going. It is rather frustrating. Just to give some perspective. This error happened before I began working on chapter 8. Chapter 16 is all 95% or better.

All in all I have about 7 verses in this tragic errant category. My fear is that I will get 100% on everything but won't be able to move on without playing catch up on a few verses.

I am thinking that 100,000,000 (nice, JDJDJD) may work. Regardless, am not too frustrated, because the stats help me measure in a personal and measurable way how I am progressing.

I'm going to guess 110,000,000 being somewhat of a pessimist by nature. But I certainly hope for your sake that 100,000,000 is the actual number.

Have you any thought regarding what you might take on after Mark?

thank you too for explaining all those details.

I feel for you with those tragic verses! I can completely relate to this. It’s usually a short verse, and a brief lapse of concentration and/or poor typing can bring it crashing down to 70% or even worse! But my memorisation technique is a lot more haphazard than yours, so I’m sure I’ve got a lot more than 7 of them.
Congratulations on 489 out of 642. I’m confident in you. I predict 95,000,000.

Secundus, I have to confess a bit of ignorance here, but before I taught Mark in Sunday School a few years back, I didn't realize that Mark was really Peter's account of Jesus' life. After study and the memory work with the Gospel of Mark, I have gained a much greater appreciation for him. So, I think I & II Peter will be my next book(s). Another thought would be to work on books referenced in Mark. It is includes Isaiah, so that may be unrealistic. Although, before using this site, I never would have thought memorizing an entire Gospel was humanly possible. I thought about Acts. My gut says to move away from a Gospel and concentrate on an Epistle, so I & II Peter are my most likely.

PeterP, I can still remember the feeling of seeing the dreaded 70%. It has taken about a year to go from 70% to 99% with almost daily testing. I have tried multiple tests a day, tests every other day to tests every few days (this seems to work with verses that haven't encountered major setbacks), and nothing speeds things up. The irony is that you are right. This kind of error occurs on shorter verses, which are much easier to memorize. Yet after a big mistake (more likely for short verses), the site makes you work much harder. I can honestly say, I have memorized 1:43 more completely than any other, yet I am still not complete. Meanwhile, chapters 7,8,11,12 (started after my mistake at 1:43) are all at 100% already. But, I digress. I'll take the 95,000,000...

good comments

To Moviegoer, watching this with interest, and cheering you on from a distance!

Thanks, joosep! The encouragement is super helpful!

You're welcome. I'm hoping that PeterP's prediction will be accurate :)

Haha, thanks joosep!

So far, we have:
TheMoviegoer at 80,885,040 points with 493 verses out of 673 at 100%.
That is a total of 180 verses remaining. His least known verse is Mark 16:20 at 95%.

Points to reach 100% for the entire Gospel of Mark
Predictions:
95,000,000 PeterP, and a hopeful joosep.
100,000,000 JDJDJD, and a hopeful Secundus
110,000,000 Secundus's actual prediction
100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Cali2022

Note: Predictions are for entertainment purposes only. It would be the height of lunacy to incorporate actual gambling/betting/etc. on the activity of memorizing God's word which admonishes such activity outright. So, at the core, this post really only points out how little TheMoviegoer understands his own process, how the site actually tabulates progress by percentage, how the first two work together, and how TheMoviegoer finds it fun to explore the least likely way to get real answers on the topic. Regardless, someone will be right, and I hope it is not Cali2022.

very entertaining reading!
One question, when you review those 95-99% verses, do you review only the isolated verses, or entire passages?

...and I totally agree with your remark about gambling / betting

joosep,

Great question. It is a bit of a combination. For a long time, I only reviewed chapter by chapter. Eventually, I wanted to get some chapters complete and move on*, so I created individual verse files to clear out some of these tricky verses (not tricky to memorize, but short ones crippled by quick errors.) As a result, I am now down to 6 verses. Chapters 13-16 are on normal progression. The verses (1:43, 3:15, 4:25, 6:55, 9:32, and 9:49). Note: some of these are longer verses, but I can't explain why they dropped lower than the normal progression rates. See above for the frustration over bringing the percentage up after a single big error.

But again, my process involves going over chapters at a time, and I still go over chapters that are at 100%. I do this because I want to really keep it together up to the end.

*I am a complex and quirky guy. By moving on, I mean keeping the memorized chapter in rotation, but at a less rigorous level. For example, I repeat chapters that are still progressing percentage-wise, but pretty one run through known chapters.

Moviegoer, you wrote:
"this post really only points out how little (we understand our) own process, how the site actually tabulates progress by percentage, how the first two work together" and "I can't explain why they dropped lower than the normal progression rates".

I've been at this site since 2015 (not continually ... I've just returned after a one year absence). I've gone through about three processes where many verses became fully learnt, and then I did a reset of some kind; I've gone through that three times since 2015. My point being, I too can't offer a clear and concise explanation for how it all works.

I mention this to invite ONFIRE247 to join this conversation. Are you reading it? Or if you are, please join in and *offer your analysis*. (I say this because in his past posts he clearly demonstrated that he had put a lot of thought into these questions, as to how this site works.)

Also I invite him to join this conversation because he used to be a very very active participant here, and now he is not. I'm writing this on the off-chance that he is or will be logged in and reading this at some point.

My words to him about a year ago were not appropriate -- too harsh, too direct -- and I apologized for that when I came back about a week ago, and I apologize again. I felt "convicted" as we used to say back in the 1970s when I first "got saved" (vocabulary Christians in the 1970s used, and some still use those terms today) For anyone who might not know, to "feel convicted" meant that we believed the Holy Spirit was speaking to us, that we had done something wrong, and now needed to make it right. I came back here, "feeling convicted" that I had done something wrong through my words. And so there are two purposes for my invitation to ONFIRE247, one to offer my apology to him, and two, because he would indeed have something valuable to add to this conversation!

Thanks, joosep! And as far as I am concerned, onfire247 is always welcome. We all have our various issues, hangups, convictions, etc., but I hope I can always listen and give a fair response regardless of my own weakness and limitations. Both of you have always been an encouragement to me on this site, and I hope we can all join in!

Hey guys... onfire247 has not been on the site since the end of November. I felt immediately "uneasy" at his sudden quiet. Please join with me and lift him (and his family) in prayer. I do not know anyone who has access to his personal email to check on him. BUT GOD knows.....

yes, I'm aware that he hasn't logged any activity since November. I wrote that earlier message in the hope, and with the prayer, the he would log in, read it and participate again.

yes, I agree, mrsmoo, I have been praying for him -- and will continue

Praying too

Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for your prayers!

I hold no ill will against you, joosep, or anyone else on this website, but I do appreciate your apology. I'm glad you're active again here. Memorizing is hard work, and we are blessed to have an encourager like you back.

TMG, I'm glad that you're still rocking Mark. You've progressed so much so quickly! I'm proud of your dedication. Based on your memorization method, assuming nothing has changed, I'd say probably somewhere in the 150m range before you are done with Mark.

Regarding how the website tabulates points and percentages, at every percentage level, there seems to be a built-in dead zone where it is impossible to get a percentage increase until a certain number of hours/days have passed. If it is your goal to get 100% as quickly as possible, it is inefficient to study too early during the dead zone period because the system is not going to give you a percentage point. In fact, studying early can make the finishing time even longer the higher the verse percentage gets.

Here are the normal monthly intervals that I have received this week finishing my verses:
90% 3 months (90 days)
91% 3 months (90 days)
92% 3/4 months (90-120 days)
93% 4 months (120 days)
94% 4/5 months (120-150 days)
95% 5 months (150 days)
96% 5/6 months (150-180 days)
97% 6/7 months (180-210 days)
98% 7 months (210 days)
99% 7/8 months (210-240 days)

So if you consider just straight division, the percentage point minimum interval would seem to be as follows:
90% 18 days
91% 18 days
92% 18-24 days
93% 24 days
94% 24-30 days
95% 30 days
96% 30-36 days
97% 36-42 days
98% 42 days
99% 42-48 days

Now, if you hit 90% and 95% and waited the recommended system time, you'd be looking at 240 days (90+150) to get the last 10 points to finish the verse. But if you do it after each minimum interval, you'd be looking at 282 days (18+18+18+24+24+30+30+36+42+42). As you can see, reviewing early like this will add significant time to your finish. In my experience, however, you can get a point increase earlier if you review a bit earlier than the minimum and get a score of 95% or higher.

This is what I perceive to be the true dead zone of each percentage point:
90% 10 days
91% 10 days
92% 10-16 days
93% 16 days
94% 16-22 days
95% 22 days
96% 22-28 days
97% 28-34 days
98% 34 days
99% 34-40 days

So if you review at the edge of the dead zone, you'd be looking at 202 days (10+10+10+16+16+22+22+28+34+34) to finish a verse. That's quite a savings. Now the caveat to this is that the minimum interval seems to increase if you review too early into the dead zone. So reviewing daily would increase your time.

So what do we make of all this data? It seems like it is worth it to review a verse early (daily even) until the percentage gets to about 85%. After that, and especially post-90%, reviewing frequently will make you take longer to finish the verse than just following the system-approved interval. You can, however, game the system a bit by tracking dead zones to shave days off your finish time if you want to spreadsheet it.

Personally, I don't track intervals. I review verses daily, biweekly, weekly, bimonthly, and monthly based on how well I know the verse or passage. Generally, this method seems to hit the dead zone intervals naturally, so I tend to finish verses early as a result, but I'm not too concerned about it, honestly. The verses finish when they finish.

excellent analysis!
My impression (can't prove this) but my impression is that there is not a "dead zone"; but rather that the progress % increases at very small increments, once it's proportional to such intervals as 8 months. (The proportion of how early you are reviewing the verse to the actual interval). If someone reviews after only one week when the interval is 8 months, then the proportional % increase is very small, perhaps from 98.2 to 98.4%, but it's rounded off for our visual benefit, and so we don't see it until the whole digit increases.

I love geeking out on stats and how calculations on websites are done. :D Thanks for all that info. It’s good to know. But, what I’m gathering here, of using my method of going hard core for 3 months and then skipping a year, is NOT the best way to reach mastery? :D

Great analysis, OnFire! And I also agree with you, Joosep - I think the system works with fraction of % points, which are then rounded for display. Sometimes you can review a verse that’s (for example) 98% finished, and gain +1%, and still be on 98% afterwards. In such a case, I assume it was actually 97.7% to start with, +0.6% = 98.3% afterwards.
I’m reviewing almost all my verses ‘early’ most of the time, because I usually review a complete chapter using ‘test instead of read’, which means that the system drives the review cycle based on the weakest verse in the chapter.

This is really helpful... and it SUPER AWESOME to hear from onfire247!!!!!! I haven't seen you for a while, and I am so glad to hear from you. I hope for more and more opportunity to encourage one another!

A few months ago, I spoke about my progress and several folks chimed in with their guess as to when I would complete Mark. 90-110 million (I think, but I'll check soon). I feel like it will be closer to 150 million, but we will see. As you know, we don't commit ourselves for points. However, because % and points are there, they inevitable become a measuring stick... if even somewhat arbitrary. I will soon start another book while finishing Mark (I Peter, 2 Peter, Hebrews, Romans - not sure).

Thanks everyone for the algorithm feedback, and again, great to hear from your onfire247.

I have some follow-up information regarding our discussions about how the website calculates percentages. When I started back 24 days ago, I went through all of my John reviews to see how many I could finish from memory because most of them were in the high 90s.

This morning, I decided to review those same verses in John 12-16, where I have several verses at 98% and 99%. Out of 21 verses, 17 of them went from 98% and 99% to fully mastered when I scored perfect on the verse. I verified that the system registered them as mastered for the day as well. I also hit "Learn" again on the set and reviewed each verse to verify the percentage stayed the same. [Sometimes in the past I've seen the screen display a certain percentage but then change afterward (usually when you get 95% on the first review and then 100% on the second. It seems the first review takes priority.)].

Now given the intervals of 30 days per percentage point at that level, the expected result should have been that none of them advanced a point since I just reviewed them all 24 days ago. Now it is possible that some of the 99% verses might have reached 100% if there is rounding up on the display, given our previous discussions. However, of the 14 that were at 98%, 10 of them advanced to fully mastered if I did not make a mistake. That should not have occurred, right?

So I believe you guys may be right that there is a hidden percentage that is not fully displayed, along with some sort of rounding on the screen once you cross half a percentage point. But there also has to be some sort of bonus for getting the verse perfect. I believe I have a solution. Perhaps the mastery percentage algorithm matches the scoring algorithm. In other words, in the scoring algorithm when you get a verse perfect, you get the points-per-word score and a bonus 1.5x multiplier on top for making no mistakes.

If that were the case, it is possible that one of the 98% verses was actually at like 98.4% and was then given a .8% increase for the normal interval, pushing it to 99.2%, rounded down to 99% on the display. Then it was given another .4% for getting it perfect (98.4 + .8 = 99.2%, 99.2 + .4 = 99.6%, rounded up to 100%). This would also explain why some verses at 98% and 99% did not advance to 100%.

Thoughts?

I believe what you have proposed is quite possible; that is, that there is a kind of bonus added to the progress percentage when you score 100% on the review. Yes, I see that as a possiblity. Thanks for taking the time to analyze that and I'm sure others will have some input than mine.

And yes, the fact that the progress percentages are (as far as we can tell) rounded up or down makes our analysis of the situation a bit trickier to carry out ..

Any idea of how selecting and/or deselecting "test" or reloading before a verse is completed impacts the algorithm? There have certainly been times (especially on short verses) where speed and typos go horribly wrong, and I have done this to avoid getting docked even more.

I cannot see any impact on the points/percentages when refreshing or deselecting test other than what I described above. I've done the same on short verses with high percentages. There is one verse in Romans 1 ("foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless") which gives me nightmares every time I review it. One wrong fat finger and I know it will drop it 25%.

Thanks, onfire247! And I know your pain. Plus, I do first letter only (for speed), so if my fingers aren't perfectly set, I can easily string out some significant errors. I'll never forget that 25% drop from the 90s down to 70 something.

Regarding the rounding, I’m pretty sure that the %age score is rounded down, not up - especially at 99%. I remember many years ago, it was possible for the verse score to reach 100%, even though the verse was not actually ‘complete’ - because the true score was 99.5% or more. Then Luke made a change to prevent this happening. So now, only a fully completed verse displays 100%. But I don’t know whether the displayed score is always rounded down, or whether it was a specific fix for the 99-100% situation.

that's good information, thank you PeterP

Question: Someone mentioned the possibility of starting another account to use when you master verses. So I guess it is not possible to recycle verses in the same account once mastered... So I think someone said maybe you can put the verse in test mode or something like that? I was not clear on that response.

MarkAnthony, you can

1) go to your list of verse sets (I'm using a PC; on my browser, the username appears at the top right and then from that there is a drop down menu. Choose "Verse Sets".
2) Find the set you want to review, click the link;
3) scroll down and click "Learn".
4) Next to the progress percentage for the first verse in the set, top right of the screen, you will see three parallel bars forming a small square. Click on that.
5) Then you'll see some options for your review of that set. One of those is "Test instead of read". Tick that box. Then you can test yourself on each verse in the set, even if it's not due for review.

6) Some folks prefer not to review fully learned verses because if you end up with a low score on the review, it can radically lower the progress percentage. Thus, your fully learned verse will no longer have that status, and perhaps go back to 80, 70, even 50%, depending on how poor your test score is.

7) My own experimentation has shown, that if you test a fully learned verse and your result is at least 90%, then the verse will retain its fully learned status.

8) I hope that's helpful, but I'm sure other folks here will have their own input :)

9) <edit> The option, "Test instead of read" will *not* appear in any case when all the verses are ready for review. It will only appear if and when some of them are not ready for review.

It is certainly possible to test fully learned verses, and dropping percentages is certainly a risk. I was referring to how the system prompts you to practice whenever you review a verse that is 100% instead of prompting it to go to the next verse. So, say you are reviewing a long passage or book, typically you'll just type the first verse and hit the space bar to go to the next verse in the series. Then you rinse/repeat until the section is done. If a verse is at 100%, however, it will instead prompt you to practice. It interrupts your flow because you have to move the mouse and click to move to the next verse instead of just hitting the spacebar.

Yes, I agree with you onfire, regarding that flow problem.

10) it's also worth noting, that if your set is a public set, the fact that you have begun learning on it will appear on the news screen every time you click "Learn" for that passage. I don't mean when you click review from the review queue, but when you go to the list of sets as I mentioned in point #3 above -- when you click "Learn", that will result in that information appearing on the news feed, if your set is public.

I see you are getting very close to my estimate of 100,000,000!!! Hows the book of Mark coming on??

Oh, wow JDJDJD! I am 9 verses away and about about 700,000 away from 100,000,000. You may be spot on. Soon, we will have a winner!

every morning I check to see your progress, Moviegoer!

Haha! Thanks, joosep! 9 verses! I am about to start. We'll see if any more fall. My guess is Saturday, but you never know! Also, I have modified my spreadsheet to include I & II Peter... when the time comes.

That's pretty cool, first the gospel of Mark, now the guy who was the source of Mark's information :)

joosep, that is one primary reason I selected I & II Peter. I am Presbyterian (PCA) and believer in Reformed Theology. As a result, Paul was a natural big name in study growing up and over the years. As such, I never really did a solid, focused study on Peter. Over the years, my respect for Peter has grown, and after Mark, I thought it would be good to also be familiar with his epistles. I was tempted to jump to Romans, but because or my memorization of Mark, I feel Peter's letters deserve my continued attention.

Moviegoer, I have a question for you which you don't need to answer now, but it's fascinating to me. Do you think that when in 2 Peter 1:15, Peter says (NASB) that he will be "diligent that at any time after my departure you will also be able to call these things to mind". From the context, I think it's clear that by his departure, he means his death (see vss 13-14). Could it be that here he is referring to the fact that behind the scenes, he is instructing Mark to write down the gospel record? Because that's how they will be able to call everything to mind, by reading it, or by it being read aloud in the church.

You don't have to answer now if you don't have time, but anyway, I think it's fascinating to consider :)

Great question, joosep!

Before taking any serious look at the epistles, my gut reaction is that Peter is keenly aware of the importance of his testimony and that he would want Mark and others know that it should be written down and shared if and when he passed away. I wonder how Peter felt about how close he was to Christ's return. Obviously, from our perspective, it has been thousands of years since Christ ascended, and I believe that Peter probably thought Christ might return in his lifetime. I believe that he is telegraphing to Mark that should he pass, he wanted to make certain that his (Peter's testimony) is recorded and shared fully. I don't think it is behind the scenes but right up front. I think he is setting the expectation that should Jesus not return before Peter's death, it will be profoundly important for the testimony to be documented and shared. Because of the nature of Mark's narrative, I believe Peter did provide some clear guidance for Mark. Would Mark have naturally told the story of Peter's betrayal so honestly if not given clear direction? Here is someone he looked up to and for whom he served as secretary. My guess is that he would be tempted to tell Christ's story without showing how flawed Peter was. In other words, I believe Peter shared with Mark that his crazy suggestion at the transfiguration, the rebuke of Christ's honesty about the cross, and the denials, had to be emphasized by Peter and embraced by him in order for Mark to so clearly drive them home.

I love this question, and I am curious about how I might respond after a thorough study and memorization. For example, many narrative sections of Mark have changed for me as a result of study. I don't mean that there has been a complete reversal of thought, but certainly my perspective has been significantly impacted by the time and study applied in this process.

excellent words. Thank you for taking the time to write that for us.

joosep, you're too kind. We happen to share an affinity for the Word. I am sure that there are many things you have already taken away from in your study of Luke. I don't know if your blog covers that kind of thing, but I would love your insight on Luke's gospel as you see fit to share!

Yes, I'd like to share those things. It's been a matter of time lately. And I'm also in my late sixties, and doing things on the computer are not as intuitive for me as they were say 20 years ago, in the "old days" of the internet LOL. I've checked out some free blog sites, but I just haven't been able to devote the time to learning all the ins and outs. Anyway, thank you for your encouragement toward me to go further in that direction.

Interesting discussion! Thank you for sharing!

Yes very interesting. Love reading all this. 💕

joosep, 60 is the new 40, so you're good. Plus, I am in my 50s, so I am just trying to keep up!

(smile) thanks :) they also say, age is only a number. Plus, I keep Jn 5:28, 5:24, 5:25, in mind :) Thank You Lord.

Amen!