Activity from TheMoviegoer§↻

a cool 90,000,000. Soo goooood!

I'm cheering you on! That 90 million represents a lot of time very well spent.

Less than 100 verses left to complete now. You’re on the home straight! But my estimate of 95 million is now definitely looking too low!

Thanks, everyone! Yes, I have about 96 verses to go... all at 98% or better. PeterP, I am not sure where that final number will land (you're probably right about 95 million being low), but I can say that I do feel that it is time very well spent, and I am chomping at the bit to tackle my next book. I have shared with many of you that I was thinking of I & II Peter because Mark is basically Peter's gospel account. However, I am waffling now. Thinking of either Hebrews or Romans. Not sure why... just letting the Spirit lead.

It's impressive how you've moved into the upper eschelons on this website so quickly. I applaud your hard work. Congrats!

Those are all amazing books. After finishing Philippians, I thought about going to Colossians, but after reading through it, there are way too many verses that sound similar. I think tackling that one next would confuse me a lot. So instead I'm going for a book by a different author. So I understand. I just want to have all of it memorized! :D

onfire247,
I find the points aspect of the site both helpful and weird at the same time. While I have moved relatively quickly up the ladder, I haven't accumulated near the verses that many of my colleagues have. However, I had memorized long passages before in my life and found that they eventually drift away in terms of recall. So, I wanted to commit to the level that would allow me to really burn in the scripture solidly. I decided to focus on 100% completion. This has certainly been far more challenging than I ever imagined. From short verse mistake purgatory, to seemly turtle like progress against vaunted efforts, it just takes time on this site. Early on, I committed to an hour a day. Eventually the points measuring stick became more realistic in terms of setting goals because I don't always do the work in one sitting. I started at 100,000 points per day, and then moved to 142,000ish to make it an even million for the weekly average. Memorizing books makes this easier, because chapters are about 20k each. So, I would first work on repetition for new passages and then review (test) previous chapters to keep them solid while progressing toward 100% all in the 140k point range. Well, it is just habit now. I have take a week off here and there... sometimes a day. But it is part of my routine now. So, I actually miss it when I don't work on it. Still, I always wonder if working on verses and passages would have been the better route. I love Mark, especially when I hear someone preach on it, so I have zero regret.

FinalAsgard,
Congrats on Philippians! That is actually one of the books I tried to memorize about 10 years ago. I do think epistles are great books to memorize. I am looking forward to moving on from Mark soon. I don't know if I have shared this in a while, but one of the coolest things about this site early on was the thought if we ever met as a group in a physical location, we might be able to recite the whole Bible between us. That seemed awesome to me. What book are you working next?

I'm starting on James. I do hope to tackle the book of Luke soon, though. I have never met up with anyone from this site, but I have met up with people from the BibleMemoryGoal community and that was a blessing.

Awesome, FinalAsgard! Enjoy James... my sister memorized it (not on this site), but Luke would be great too. I haven't met anyone from this site either, but we share the same spirit! Cheers!

Some of what you wrote Moviegoer, really made me think. I like your method of 142,000 points per day, using that as a measuring stick. Um, NOT that I'm interested in the points, ok? points are most certainly not a measuring rod for spirituality. It's that I like the PRACTICAL aspect of that method: having a specific daily goal for repetition. I don't anymore use the learnscripture review algorithm, because when the intervals reach six to nine months, I forget in a major way maybe 10 percent of the verses, and voila, verse mistake purgatory.

SO: I've had Luke in the back of my mind ever since I joined this site back in 2015. But I was also always put off by the thought that it's too long, and would take too long to complete. So, this is the first day of a three-year-project.

I hope and pray that I'm a man of my word. Let your yes be yes and your no be no. I've failed many times on that angle.

A caveat, I've already worked on portions of Luke, but most of it is either in the low percentages or never added.

We'll see how it goes. Will I still be alive in three years? Will Jesus have returned? In any case I hope to make the best of each of my days while it is still called today.

Yeah, the review cycle on this site is great at first, but it drops off. I'm working on a tool to help track my review schedule (asked for by other people on the BMG community). Definitely not a replacement for this site, but as an extra tool to remind me of what to review so I don't forget the amazing words of God that I'm working so hard to memorize.

joosep,
You said it exactly. The points are more of an organizational tool and way (apart from the site's built in method) of working on repetition. It will be good to see another Gospel being memorized! FinalAsgard mentioned Luke as well. This is all so exciting and encouraging!

I'm glad you find it encouraging. I've begun this evening. By God's mercy ...

Awesome, joosep!

That's great information, TMG. Thanks for sharing. I love the specifics you give. It helps me to modify my own plans.

I agree that after six months repetition becomes more difficult, especially for those who memorize a whole book. John uses the same phrases in different parts of his book in slightly different ways, so it is easy to mess up if you haven't reviewed it for a while. I think at some point, I would like to create a set of physical flashcards for each chapter so I can organize the order of the verses visually. I looked into it, but I could not find an online tool that would allow you to create and move around flashcards in a way that worked for me. I also explored purchasing them online, but laminated cardstock prints costs skyrocket quickly. I considered making a business out of it, but the profit margins are so low compared to the licensing costs you have to pay to become a distributor.

Regarding tackling the 6+ month situation, I handle that all through the name of the chapter. Here's an example of my setup:

[R0] Learn: Romans 16:17-27 (ESV)
[R1] Daily: Luke 15:1-32 (ESV)
[R2] Biweekly (TF): Romans 01:01-07 (ESV)
[R3] Weekly (Fri): Romans 01:08-17 (ESV)
[R4] Bimonthly - (04/19): John 19:01-15
[R6] Monthly - (01): John 01:01-18
{Finished}: John 19:16-22

This format seems to organize well on the website. I basically just go down the list after doing my Learn verses. If time is short, I will do the Learn and then start at the bottom of the list. It seems to work well for me and keeps me from having to use a second scheduling tool.

I am interested in trying to build something that helps with verses long term. I was going to ask earlier what process did you use, like do you put verses that you mastered back into the website for another round. Anyway, something I will pray about.

You can continue to review verses which are fully learned. To do so, you go to your list of verses, click on the desired link, and click the learn button. Any fully learned verse in the passage will show the full text. But, there is an option to tick off a box which says "test instead of learn", and then you will be able to test all those "fully learned" verses. Then in my own case I would use a spreadsheet having a list of passages to track the next time I want to review that passage. But I'm not engaged in that at the moment, I'm instead in a project where I'm working on the gospel of Luke, and most of those are far from fully learned :)

Understood. Good to know.

Testing fully learned verses is frustrating because it prompts you to practice after every verse. If you want to avoid that, you've really got a few choices.

1. You can reset your verse progress, which will erase the verse as fully learned. This messes with your stats because it is as if you never learned the verse in the first place. You start the verse again at zero and your fully learned number goes down.

2. You can mess up the verse drastically by making tons of mistakes on a review. This will lower the progress on the verse from 100% to like 30% depending on various factors. Rinse/repeat until it is zero. This keeps your stats on a verse under a 100%. Presumably it would do it on a 100% verse as well, but I can never bring myself to test it to confirm.

3. You can create a second account and start over. This retains your first accounts stats and you review the verses on the second account.

I think the third option would be the best if you want to keep certain verses going forever. Then you could reset the progress on those verses without affecting your stats on the primary account.

Personally, after a 1.5 years memorizing something daily I'm usually ready to move on to something else. Plus the Bible is very big, and there's always something new worth learning. I do like to read the learned stuff once a month to keep it fresh, however.

I would go with the third option. Plus there's a variety of ways to make the third option a reality.

i have two accounts and double up on my verses when i am working to consolidate them.
It works well for me

Everyone,
I find this conversation so helpful. I often feel alone in my frustration and confusion about what it really means to make progress toward 100%. So far, I have simply gutted it out with Mark. No resetting, no duplicated accounts, etc., but massive confusion over how one verse takes an inordinate amount of work while others don't, and while breaking from the site's own schedule does little to improve your progress. At this point, there is little motivation to try and understand or overcome the system for me, but I am glad that I am not alone in the struggle to walk through it.

Onfire247, book work really helps for me. Learning entire chapters, for example, allows me to simply work on continual progress toward 100% on later chapters while keeping old firm chapters in rotation. On a given day, I will spend some amount of time chiseling away at the final 98% verses, but I will usually try and include a single chapter from earlier. Today might be, work on late chapter 14, then a run through chapter 2-3. Tomorrow, more 14, then chapter 4 (it's longer), etc.

To be fair, I am not trying to get to 100% just to stop with Mark. When I move on, I plan to keep the Mark Chapter work in rotation. New work + 1-2 chapters of Mark. Once the new book is done, new work + 1 chapter of Mark, + 1 chapter of new book...

What I have not discussed often enough is how the work done with all of this actually helps beyond the work of the site. I would say that my devotional and prayer life is much more dynamic and active than ever before in my 50ish years. So many discussions and exploration takes place as a result of continually walking through the Gospel. I owe so much to this site and your regular encouragement. Thanks again to you all. You don't always realize what your work means to others!

I believe the problem you're facing -- regarding 98% verses seemingly not wanting to move forward -- has to do with the assigned interval. If you review that verse today and it now has an interval of 9 months, or 270 days, and then you review it again tomorrow, a perfect score will only move you forward by 1/270 of that possible 5% to move forward with a perfect score.

I hope what I said made sense. Normally, the way the review queue and intervals are designed, you review a verse when it's due and if you score 100% you advance the progress percentage by 5%. But if you review it early, you only advance it based on a proportion of how early you are reviewing it as a factor of the total interval of 9 months or whatever.

In my opinion, it would help to if possible, "let go" some of those 98% verses for a while :)

I hope that helps.

joosep,
Thanks! That does help. And I have noticed that if I have been grinding on a particular verse or verses, when I take a break, it will leap forward the next time I address it. I think it just gets harder for me when on balance I have more verses at 100% than not. So, I want to complete the book...

This is a little bit ironic because completing the book doesn't mean I want to stop working on it. As I mentioned, I don't want this to be something I memorize and then forget in 6 months.

I sympathize with everything you've said here, Moviegoer. The best thing we can do, I think, is to sit back and be blessed by the journey, as you already wrote :)

Haha, yes! And keep each other in prayer. The last thing we want to do is take something as marvelous as studying the Word and turning into a chore.

amen. In the interest of transparency, I've been guilty of making it a chore at times in the past. So now I'm trying to relax and just be blessed by the Lord as I go along :) Each little passage is a treasure.

: )

Yeah, last summer it became a chore, and I ended up taking several months off. I'm working on that, though, keeping my focus on the word of God and why I'm doing this, even after such a long time. Remembering your why, and being flexible with your schedule is a good help.

I understand where you are coming from TMG. I applaud your desire to keep Mark active in you memory. The problem with continuing books forever is that eventually you will reach a point where there is just simply not enough time in the day for your reviews. I've read stories where people have memorized multiple books of the Bible, but I've never read a story where someone kept everything they had memorized in active memory forever. Instead, they eventually move on to other books and occasionally re-read the books to keep them active.

When I first started memorizing, I remember looking down on those people. Why in the world would they do all that work and then just move on? But now I kind of understand why. I suspect that somewhere between two books and eight books the reviews probably become impossible to maintain unless a person is single and unemployed. Just keeping John active was two hours a day, and that's just one of 66 books. Even if someone was unemployed or retired, I'd think keeping that many books active would eat into actual ministry or good works time.

This is all speculation, of course. I don't begrudge people for their long-term memory plans. Perhaps someone is reading this that has been called into full-time scripture memory. History is littered with Christian monks who have dedicated their whole life to such an endeavor, so at some level, God must be OK with it. After all, it is the sacrifices of those unknown heroes that have provided us with God's word in a readable form today.

As always, follow what the Holy Spirit says to you personally. I'm just happy to see people active and posting about their experiences.

Joosep, if what you said is true about the percentage increases, it is never worth it to review a verse early after 90%. Doing so will add years to your mastery. For example, if you reviewed a verse daily, it would take you 35 months to go from 95% to 100% (i.e., 5 to 96%, 6 to 97%, 7 to 98%, 8 to 99%, 9 to 100%). But if you wait until it prompts you at 95%, you will save 30 months off of your mastery because it would go straight to 100%.

I know I've had a verse go from 99% to 100% after reviewing a verse six weeks early even though it had a 9-month interval. Of course, that could be a rounding-up graphical glitch. I'll know in 2 months if that is the case.

I think it would depend on what the review cycle is. I hope to get to where I can have 8 to 12 books memorized, but I expect the review cycle for each would be about once or twice a year, not every week/month. But, I'm still new to this whole thing of memorizing large chunks of scripture.

I have John 1 memorized, and I don't review it very often at all (about once every 3 months) and I struggle a little bit with 3-4 verses, but for the most part I am able to review and recall it successfully. I expect that will be harder as time goes on, but either way, there has to be a balance somewhere to allow you to keep reviewing things that you have already memorized without getting overwhelmed.

Onfire, I was only trying to say that 1) reviewing a verse "on time", i.e., on the day when the website tells you that it is due, will result in a 5% increase of your progress percentage. 2) but reviewing it early means that you only gain some proportional amount corresponding to how early you are reviewing it, and also proportional to what your review score is.

I'm certainly not an expert, only an observer as I've seen verses reach 100%; but I wasn't observing with precision as I went along. In other words, there's a lot of room for error in what I said.

Quite frankly, I myself am not going to concern myself with it anymore; when and if they reach 100%, then they do, if they don't, they don't. In the meantime, I'll do my best to give ear to what the Lord is saying to me in each passage.

Thanks for clarifying. I'm with you on the finished verses. I worried about the first one because it takes so long to get it, but after that, I stopped worrying about it. I review when my verse set when the name tells me to. The percentage is what the percentage is. That said, I do love a good mystery, and how the website tallies percentages certainly is intriguing.

yes, I agree, it's intriguing. Of course if Luke happens to be reading this and could comment, he could open up the mystery perhaps :)

I think you’re right, Joosep, on the way the site works when you review a verse early, but like you, I can’t say what the exact formula is.
My preferred system is now this… I learn chapters, without any section breaks. Then I let the site dictate the review cycle, which it does based on the weakest verse in the chapter. But when the chapter comes up for review, I use ‘test instead of read’ so that I’m actually reviewing all the verses, not just the few that are actually due for review. This way the %age of the nearly-finished verses increases by a very small amount, and the weakest verse increases by up to 5% (if I get it right, ha ha!).
This way, completing the whole chapter usually takes years, because my memory is far from perfect, and I make mistakes on some of the 100% verses as well as the ones I’m supposed to be doing. But the early-morning LearnScripture time with a pot of tea has become a very valuable part of my routine and a time to connect with God at the start of the day.

I agree with you 100%, PeterP, and that not downgraded by any fraction! :)

Wow. I woke up this morning to a fascinating and lengthy discussion. Great work, everyone!

onfire247, you're absolutely correct. There isn't enough time in the day to keep up with everything. I don't expect that I will always be on a rigorous review process. In fact, even now, I am spending a lot more time on late Mark (progress) than in early Mark (review). At some point, all of Mark will simply be review, and I will move on to another book. I imagine that at some point, Mark review will receive less attention. However, if I keep it in some form of rotation, the hope is that I will not let it go.

The big question is why? I also agree that it is ok to forget scripture that you've memorized. I am getting older, all of us likely have both multiple hard copies of the Bible, and attention and time are likely far more important. However, the joy I have gotten during the process of memorizing Mark has been profound for my relationship with Jesus and the understanding of the Gospel. I guess that my emphasis or insistence on moving forward rigorously is more of a hope: that I will continue to grow closer to the Lord through his Word.

What I love about this site is that like no one else in my life right now, you all understand the trials, the blessings, the sharpening, the celebration that this process brings. As I keep going, I am so glad to do so alongside you all. And, if I go off the rails for one reason or another, I hope you all will lovingly get the train back on the track.

I believe that if you spend good time putting God's Word into your mind, when it is needed most, the Holy Spirit can bring it back for your or someone else's benefit, even if forgotten. Ideally, I would want to be able to recall at will. I also believe that the memorization sinks deeper if we allow the Holy Spirit to reveal the verse's principle as we learn it.

amen

I agree, MarkAnthony. As PeterP said, my memory is just not what it used to be. Had I started memorizing the Bible as a child it would probably be much easier for me than it is now at 48. I want to keep everything active very badly, but my retention is what it is. Most of my verses I retain to about 95%, which is tremendous. The perfectionist in me hates it, however.

Thankfully, as I've been memorizing my brain has gotten into what I call "memorization mode." When I first started on this website, doing the first initial reviews seemed to take forever. Now I can look at a verse and retain it into short term memory after a couple of reads.

I hope no one takes any of my comments as a discouragement to memorizing the Bible in whatever way you choose. We have all been given different graces and callings from God, and one person's experience is not that of another. In whatever way you choose, by God's will I hope to be here with you in the struggle.

I, too, am a perfectionist. So I understand that struggle. However, let me share this as an encouragement: There is no better mind sharpening tool, than God's WORD. I PROMISE you that. So if while studying, there is a bit of a struggle, keep in mind that this too happens with circumstances in our daily lives. But we will get through it. “When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.” Isaiah 43:2. That is a promise.

God wants us to injest His Word. "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee."Psm 119:11 The race is not for the swift, but for those that will endure. We just have to endure...and I cannot think of better words coming to mind from a better book when we need strength to do so.

Thank you, Onfire and MarkAnthony, both of those are very good words.

Question: The "test instead of learn" option when reviewing a verse is only for FULLY Learned verses?

No; that option appears whenever you review a set and not all of the verses are due.

Normally, when you a review a set where some verses are due and others are not, the verses which are not due appear as text, so that you can read them and continue in the flow of the passage.

In that scenario, the Test instead of learn option is available, so that you can be tested also on those verses which are not yet due, if you wish.

Understood. Thanks for explaining.

It is very useful during the initial learning stage. Go through the verse once, and then open the set again and repeat it over and over until you can do it without making any mistakes (and then do it five more times). The verses stick a lot better the more time you spend on them in the first hour/day of learning. Because of this, I only create passage sets for myself for individual verses instead of selection sets (although I rarely do individual verses, personally). I flag them as private, of course, to avoid spamming the group 30-40 times.

I thought about using it for sets or verses you hardly see because they are around 70%. But then I was thinking that if I did that, and made errors, it may make it that much harder for that set or verse to ever get to 100%

Yes, it is a useful option for passages where many verses are at 70-80-90%, because it keeps those verses ‘alive’ with shorter intervals between testing. But it won’t get you to 100% any faster, even if you get them perfect. And if you have a passage with some verses that are fully learned, ‘test instead of read’ is a high-risk strategy, because just one or two errors in a short verse can take it down from 100% to 80% or even worse, and it will take many months of reviewing to recover that!

You mean it will take the whole passage down, and not just the verse. Sounds like a tool you don't want to use unless it's going to be perfect when you use it.

No ... PeterP was referring to an individual verse within a passage going down, or having a reduction in its progress percentage. Not the entire passage :)

Understood. I think. :)

I'll try to clarify :) Each verse in a set of verses has it's own progress percentage. Suppose that there are ten verses in the set, and before your review, each verse has a progress % of 90. Then you go to review. If they are all due today, and you get a 100% review score for 9 of them, those 9 will each advance to 95%. But if there is one short verse that has perhaps only six words, and you get 3 of them wrong (this can happen easily when one is using the first letter method) then your review score will be 50%. That 50% review score will then crash the progress percentage down to something a lot lower.

It will crash the progress percentage *for that one specific verse*. All the other 9 will be at 95%

What if they were not due today?

Then the progress percentage increase is less; it increases in a proportional way -- something proportional to how early you are reviewing it.

Wonder how long we can make this conversation?? Blessings to all contributers